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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 684

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for the 14th of november 2021 richard

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saunders coming to you from sydney

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australia windstorms

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we've had wind storms in sydney

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australia just lately very interesting

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at least it's not

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stinking hot but you don't want to hear

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about the weather forecast well maybe

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you do

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i don't know what's the weather like

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where you are

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coming up on this week's show we're

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going to kick off with a very disturbing

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story

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about a nurse who has been charged with

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fraud

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when it comes to administering covert 19

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vaccination

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now this matters before the courts the

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woman has been charged he has not been

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found guilty however

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i will read to you from the

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western australian press release from

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the

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abc.net.au

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website here in australia on the face of

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it it could be a very disturbing story

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indeed

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following that it's the book of tim with

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dimendim back again this week

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part one of a two-part series on the

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loch ness

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specifically the famous surgeon's

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photograph

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many years ago tim winterloch ness

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maybe that's why people

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are reporting a monster i don't know

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many years ago he went to loch ness and

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he wrote this report part one this week

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part two next week in the book of tim

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then to round off the show it's the

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return of the think tank this is when a

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group of skeptics get together normally

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over a very nice chinese dinner and a

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couple of beers or wine or something

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like that and talk about skeptical

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issues of the day well this time we did

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it

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on zoom like a lot of things are done on

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zoom these days and i hook up with the

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great australian psychic prediction team

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crew

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gang

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and we talk about uh skeptical news of

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the day

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and just wait till you hear susan gerbic

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talking about

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bizarre wacky crazy theories involving

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jfk

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now

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let me remind you or maybe inform you

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that uh if you haven't heard the logical

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fallacies with michelle bickersma which

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were

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featured all last year on the skeptic

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zone you can do that at youtube just

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visit

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tinyurl.com

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logicalzone

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and you'll see two videos there each

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with many logical fallacies and they're

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all time coded so you can click the one

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you're interested in

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they only go for two or three or four

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minutes

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and uh they're very

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entertaining and i had a wonderful time

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last year with michelle producing those

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writing those producing those recording

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those

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and putting them out on the show

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so now if you're interested head to that

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url and enjoy them all over again or if

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you haven't heard them there's much to

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learn there

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and thank you again michelle for all

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your hard work

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and

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dream of having lovely japanese pancakes

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maybe one day

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but in reality i'll have a normal

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pancake with oh yes

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adrian hill canadian maple syrup while i

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do that i hope you enjoy the skeptic

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[Music]

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here in australia as the covered 19

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vaccination in various forms rolls out

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and more people are rolling up to roll

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up their sleeves to get the vaccination

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our vaccination rate in this country is

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very high indeed

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and

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i think that is really reflected

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especially here in this state new south

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wales and the fact that

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not many people now

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compared to only a few months ago are

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getting curved 19.

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i think if i'm not incorrect this state

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has reached something like 90 percent

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vaccination rate for eligible people

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i think it's clear that the vaccination

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works

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and

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it stops

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the spread well helps it's part of the

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package of measures that really stops

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the spread of cover 19. the plunging

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figures speak for themselves in that

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respect

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so it is

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upsetting concerning confusing

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sadly somehow not unexpected that there

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are still pockets of resistance people

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who are for whatever reason usually

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based on conspiracy theories

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hesitant or reluctant or won't get the

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vaccination

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but this story brought to my attention

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by some friends in the skeptical world

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is very very concerning this comes to us

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from the state of western australia

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and i'll start with the press statement

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from the western australian

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police force

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media releases this is from their

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website

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registered nurse charged

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vaccine

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fraud this was published on

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the 8th of november

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and the press

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release says

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a 50 one-year-old female registered

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nurse who was employed to administer

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covert 19 vaccines at a private medical

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center in st james has been arrested and

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charged in relation to the fraudulent

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recording of vaccine information

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it will be alleged the woman obtained

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approval from her employer for persons

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known to her to be able to attend the

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medical center and be administered a

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covert 19 vaccine and for those vaccines

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to be administered by her

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yesterday sunday 7th of november 2021 a

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person known to the nurse attended the

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st james medical center where she was

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working and arranged for their teenaged

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child to be administered to covert 19

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vaccine as per standard practice a

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second medical practitioner on this

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occasion a doctor observed the process

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it will be alleged the nurse inserted

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the needle into the teenager's arm

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but failed to administer the vaccine

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it will be further alleged the syringe

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with vaccine liquid still inside was

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disposed of

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and a false entry was made on the

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medical record systems indicating the

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teenager had received the dose of the

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vaccine

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further it will be alleged the nurse

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recorded another employee of the medical

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center had administered the dose and not

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her

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the medical center reported the matter

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to the western australian police force

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and an investigation was commenced

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the 51 year old byford woman was

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arrested yesterday at her residence and

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has been charged with one count of

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gains benefit by fraud

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she was refused bail and is due to

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appear in the perth magistrates court

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today monday the 8th november 2021 the

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investigation is ongoing

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now this story has also been reported in

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the media

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and

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we bring you the story as published on

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the abc abc.net.you

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by

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kenan burke and nicholas perchich

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and published on the 8th of november

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nurse who allegedly faked giving

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teenager covert vaccine at perth clinic

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charged with fraud

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western australian police have charged a

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nurse with fraudulently recording that a

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teenager had been given a covert 19

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vaccination when the jab was allegedly

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never administered

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christina hartman benz 51 was granted

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bail with strict conditions in the perth

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magistrates court on monday after she

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allegedly asked if she could administer

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the vaccine to family and friends at a

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private medical center in victoria park

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on the weekend

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the police prosecutor told the court

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staff

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said they noticed up to 25 people come

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into the clinic specifically asking for

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the registered nurse

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the court heard it raised their concerns

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and the clinic's owner sean stevens

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indicated he would stay and observe her

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administering the vaccine

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when a man and his 15 year old son

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allegedly asked for her specifically at

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11 25 a.m on sunday the prosecutor said

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ms benz initially objected to dr stevens

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being present

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but he insisted

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she was allegedly observed filling a

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syringe with vaccine and inserting it

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into the boy's arm

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but not depressing it the clinic said

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they immediately contacted police after

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she allegedly removed the needle and

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disposed of it with the vaccine still

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inside claiming she had administered it

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police allege she recorded the child had

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been given the vaccine and allegedly

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wrote it had been administered by a

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different staff member

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nurse's actions were

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premeditated quarters

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the police prosecutor told the court the

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number of people

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specifically asking for her suggested it

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was premeditated

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i would say it's highly suspicious your

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honor he said

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i would say it can be inferred that

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there's some level of coordination

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police said she also worked at a clinic

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in rockingham he also told the court the

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father of the teenager later returned to

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the clinic complaining his son had

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developed adverse symptoms from the

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vaccine

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to dissuade

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suspicions on misbends

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the police prosecutor said more charges

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were likely under the strict bail

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conditions ms hartman benz is not

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allowed to work as a registered nurse or

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in any capacity to administer covert 19

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vaccines

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she is also not to contact anyone who

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was a patient or a former co-worker at

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the clinic where she worked exemptions

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were made for her husband and parents

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who allegedly were among those patients

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health minister warns of severe

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penalties western australian health

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minister roger cook

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said there were severe penalties for

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this kind of behavior

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quote we're on the lookout for any of

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this sort of behavior and if it's going

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on it's just deplorable and has to stop

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and quote he said

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quote and obviously

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ahpra the professional regulatory

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authority will come down hard on any

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nurse that is abusing their role anyone

290
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:16,959
who undertakes this sort of behavior the

291
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:20,079
law will come down on them very hard

292
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:21,680
in a statement the royal australian

293
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:24,079
college of general practitioners

294
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,760
are a cgp said it was deeply concerned

295
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:29,600
to hear about the alleged incident

296
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,600
involving a nurse it said the

297
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:33,600
organization was providing support to

298
00:11:38,069 --> 00:11:37,200
the gp and practice involved

299
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:38,079
quote

300
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:39,839
the western australian police are

301
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:41,839
investigating and we stand ready to

302
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,600
support their investigation but we

303
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:46,000
cannot comment about the details of the

304
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,160
case while the investigations are

305
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:50,880
ongoing then quoted said

306
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,200
the rhcgp

307
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:56,160
said gps and practice teams across the

308
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,839
country are working hard to roll out

309
00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:00,000
covert 19 vaccinations to protect the

310
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,360
community

311
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,680
mark duncan smith the western australian

312
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:05,040
president of the australian medical

313
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:07,839
association told abc radio perth that

314
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:10,000
the incident was clearly being treated

315
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:11,600
very seriously

316
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:14,720
mr duncan smith said it would be quote

317
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:17,120
bizarre and quote for a health care

318
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:18,800
professional not to give someone a

319
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,120
vaccine he said if the allegations were

320
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,200
true he would expect the nurse would be

321
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,800
reported to the national health

322
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:26,399
regulator the australian health

323
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,839
practitioner regulation agency according

324
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:31,760
to the ahpra

325
00:12:36,370 --> 00:12:34,079
she has been a registered nurse since

326
00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:36,380
1991.

327
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,880
[Music]

328
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:40,800
so i bring this story to your attention

329
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,279
because it is a great concern

330
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:45,360
it is a very great concern we know there

331
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,959
are anti-vaxxers out there and we know

332
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:48,880
they're largely driven by conspiracy

333
00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:51,920
theories and q and on and fake news and

334
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,260
um

335
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,320
[Music]

336
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:56,880
i don't have to to go on

337
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,760
but

338
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,000
it is frightening to think that this

339
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:02,399
goes so far as to somebody like a

340
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:04,079
registered nurse

341
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,959
who is potentially doing great damage

342
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,720
great damage

343
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:10,720
allegedly allegedly because it's all

344
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:12,480
before the courts and

345
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,120
um we still

346
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:17,040
we still are under the innocent until

347
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,320
proven guilty but hypothetically if a

348
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,800
health care provider who has been

349
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,040
charged with the responsibility of

350
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,360
giving um in this case the covert 19

351
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:30,480
vaccination is faking it somehow

352
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,440
people

353
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:33,279
then end up with a certificate saying

354
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:34,720
that they have been

355
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:36,639
vaccinated when they haven't been and

356
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:39,040
could potentially spread the deadly

357
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:40,050
disease

358
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:44,000
[Music]

359
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:46,240
those anti-vaxxers and those conspiracy

360
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,360
theorists have a lot to answer for

361
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,519
i will link to that

362
00:13:56,670 --> 00:13:53,519
press release and this story

363
00:14:11,110 --> 00:13:56,680
in this week's show notes

364
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:11,120
[Music]

365
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:13,760
hi this is dr pamela gay from astronomy

366
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,720
cast

367
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:16,800
each week fraser kane and i take our

368
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,639
listeners on a fact-based journey

369
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:20,880
through the cosmos with our weekly

370
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,760
podcast we explain not just what we know

371
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:26,320
but how we know what we know about this

372
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:28,240
universe that we share

373
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,560
check us out at

374
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:31,680
astronomycast.com and look for us in

375
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:34,000
itunes google play and wherever you

376
00:14:37,390 --> 00:14:35,680
download podcasts

377
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:37,400
see you online

378
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:49,360
[Music]

379
00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:50,720
and now

380
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:52,870
a reading from the book of tim

381
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:55,600
[Music]

382
00:15:04,550 --> 00:14:58,410
with tim menden

383
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:06,790
hi my name is tim menden i'm the editor

384
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,480
of australian skeptics journal the

385
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,880
skeptic and i'm executive of the service

386
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,800
australian skeptics inc

387
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:15,040
and today i'm reading from the skeptic

388
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,920
magazine an article published in june

389
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:20,320
2012

390
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:22,720
but first published

391
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:24,839
in

392
00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,760
1994. now you can download either issue

393
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:29,120
but let's say

394
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:32,560
we'll draw the article from june 2012

395
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,680
which is volume 32 number two of the

396
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:37,040
skeptic

397
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,560
and this is about the nessie mess

398
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,040
in other words it's the true story of

399
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:45,440
perhaps the most famous

400
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,320
monster photo ever published

401
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:50,880
and it's the surgeon's photo

402
00:15:55,610 --> 00:15:53,360
which shows the head and neck and part

403
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:55,620
of the body of loch ness monster

404
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,680
[Music]

405
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:01,839
so it's the quote from someone who says

406
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:04,399
i realized for the first time with

407
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:07,199
complete assurance the picture was not a

408
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:09,680
fake and that the loch ness monster was

409
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,600
real and tangible a living animal or one

410
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:16,160
that had had been real and alive when

411
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:19,759
the picture was taken in 1934

412
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,480
so said the late tim dinsdale a leading

413
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,639
nessie hunter who had taken the only

414
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:26,480
seriously considered motion picture film

415
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,360
of the monster in 1960

416
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,800
and he was describing a classic

417
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,959
photograph of the infamous resident of

418
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,440
the scottish lock a photograph which was

419
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,279
to be the real inspiration for he's

420
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:38,959
throwing himself fully

421
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,199
into the pursuit of the monster

422
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,600
and a photograph now revealed to be

423
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,839
a hoax

424
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,519
the revelation of the hoax says more

425
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:49,920
about the willingness of believers to

426
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,519
force evidence to suit their own

427
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,680
inclinations than it does about the

428
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:56,000
existence of a large creature

429
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:57,759
in the lock

430
00:17:02,550 --> 00:16:59,759
the following question is the so-called

431
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,560
surgeon's photograph supposedly taken by

432
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:04,640
wait for it lieutenant colonel robert

433
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,880
kenneth wilson m a m b c h b camp frcs a

434
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:11,039
gynecologist who supposedly took the

435
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,199
photo in early april 1934.

436
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:16,959
if the good surgeons qualifications are

437
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,679
listed seem superfluous to the story

438
00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:20,720
they are

439
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:22,640
but that was how he was presented in

440
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,880
nicholas witchel's book the loch ness

441
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:25,760
story

442
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,640
for reasons which will become obvious

443
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:30,880
the story goes that colonel wilson

444
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,160
joint lessee of a wild foul shoot close

445
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,480
to neighbouring inverness was driving

446
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:38,240
northwards past the lock early one

447
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,000
morning with a friend

448
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,919
stopping for a break they noticed a

449
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:44,080
commotion on the locked surface about

450
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,760
two or three hundred yards from the

451
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:46,960
shore

452
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,320
the friend said my god it's the monster

453
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:52,000
and wilson ran back to his car to

454
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:54,160
retrieve a camera he had brought to take

455
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,760
photos of birds

456
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:57,440
for the technically minded the camera

457
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:58,880
was a quarter plate model with a

458
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,760
telephoto lens unstated focal length

459
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,080
using plates with almost certain a

460
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:06,799
relatively slow orthochromatic fine

461
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,039
grain emulsion

462
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,679
that's dinsdale's claim of his book

463
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:13,679
having made four exposures over a

464
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,280
two-minute period

465
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:18,000
wilson took the plates to augustine's an

466
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,320
inverness canvas where he gave them to

467
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:23,280
mr george morrison for development

468
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:25,280
wilson asked for a particular care to be

469
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:26,160
taken

470
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,720
and morrison replied you haven't got the

471
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:31,520
loch ness monster have you

472
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,840
the plates were developed the same day

473
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,000
the first two were blank

474
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,480
the third the most widely published

475
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:41,360
showed an animal's uprised head and neck

476
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:44,000
with some associated bulk evidence front

477
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,120
and back

478
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,960
and rippled water

479
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:49,280
and the fourth a very fuzzy depiction of

480
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:50,640
the head and top of the neck

481
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:56,630
on morrison's advice wilson sold the

482
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:58,799
copyright of the third photo to the

483
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:01,039
london daily mail

484
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,440
which published it on april 21st 1934

485
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:07,679
thereby challenging the evasive

486
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:10,320
ingenuity of the scientific community

487
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,760
yet again

488
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,760
which is what the ever restrained

489
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,840
nicholas whitchell said

490
00:19:19,270 --> 00:19:17,200
a further quote from witchell is

491
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,280
particularly ironic considering the

492
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:21,919
recently revealed circumstances he says

493
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,559
quote colonel wilson refused to enlarge

494
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,559
upon the bare facts of his story and

495
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,320
would not try to estimate the size of

496
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,480
the object in fact he never claimed that

497
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,400
he had photographed the monster all he

498
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:34,559
ever said was he he had photographed an

499
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,919
object moving in the waters of loch ness

500
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:39,520
the publication of the photograph

501
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,840
immediately created controversy with

502
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:43,760
believers claiming that it was absolute

503
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:46,480
proof of nessie's existence

504
00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,640
nessie mania had in fact only been

505
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:50,559
really up and running since the previous

506
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,520
year and skeptics calling it a hoax some

507
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:55,600
even suggesting it was taken in a london

508
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:56,880
pond

509
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:59,360
the surgeon's photo to be honest is not

510
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,559
very clear

511
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:02,799
showing a somewhat fuzzy head and neck

512
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,360
in silhouette with a partial reflection

513
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,840
distorted by the disturbed water around

514
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:09,360
the creature

515
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,799
it was normally published somewhat

516
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,039
enlarged showing less of the surrounding

517
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,240
water than the now lost original plate

518
00:20:21,110 --> 00:20:18,640
nevertheless dinsdale after studying the

519
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,120
photo many times from all angles and

520
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,520
holding the photo at arm's length felt

521
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:25,760
that he could discern a tiny knob or

522
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:28,400
protrusion on top of the head

523
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:30,240
complying with independent eyewitness

524
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:33,039
accounts of horn-like stumps

525
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,120
and a second set of rippling circles

526
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,360
somewhat behind the bulk of the monster

527
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:39,600
indicating disturbance caused by a

528
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,080
further part of the animal

529
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:44,559
there was this moment of epiphany which

530
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:47,679
gave rise to his conviction quote at the

531
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,240
start of this article

532
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,480
nicholas witchell described the photo

533
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,799
as believed to be the only genuine

534
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:56,480
picture of the head and neck of one of

535
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:58,000
the animals

536
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,919
while admitting that it was nevertheless

537
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:02,240
controversial the skeptics on the other

538
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,880
hand dismiss the photo as an out and out

539
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
hoax

540
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,799
or often as the tail of an otter or a

541
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,559
bird diving beneath the surface of the

542
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,720
lock or a tree trunk

543
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,559
as to the photographer's reticence for

544
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:16,799
further comment which will put this down

545
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,200
to professional reasons

546
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,280
quote the detached and entirely

547
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,840
objective approach of colonel wilson is

548
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,320
surely commendable he made no wild

549
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:28,559
claims and as one would expect from a

550
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,840
professional scientific man of standing

551
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:33,440
that's the long list of initials after

552
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:35,679
his name he merely reported what had

553
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:37,520
happened as far as his recollection

554
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,200
would allow

555
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,280
having done that he wished to have no

556
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:43,600
part in the wrangling which inevitably

557
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,000
follows every photograph purported to

558
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,760
show one of the animals

559
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:49,840
note the purporting to show one of the

560
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:52,559
animals rather than one of the purported

561
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:53,760
animals

562
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,039
perhaps there were other than

563
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:56,640
professional reasons

564
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,280
for the colonel silence

565
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:01,200
and we'll continue the article

566
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:02,799
in part two

567
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:06,320
looking at the revealed hoax

568
00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:08,880
and that's the messy mess part one from

569
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,760
the skeptic june 2012

570
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,080
volume 32 number two

571
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,840
and you can download that issue of the

572
00:22:19,549 --> 00:22:17,919
skeptic with the full article from our

573
00:22:21,909 --> 00:22:19,559
website

574
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:21,919
skeptics.com.iu for free

575
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,919
and while you're there why not subscribe

576
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:25,440
to the magazine

577
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:27,919
and you'll make nessie a very happy

578
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:43,830
[Music]

579
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:46,070
hello this is maynard did you know that

580
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:47,679
you could listen to the skeptic zone on

581
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:51,120
youtube yes i know sounds crazy but it's

582
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,310
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

583
00:23:01,669 --> 00:23:00,240
with michelle bickersma and funny

584
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:01,679
sketches with richard saunders and a

585
00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:07,029
just click on the youtube links on the

586
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,029
[Music]

587
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:22,080
join us now for drinking skeptically in

588
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:32,390
[Music]

589
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:34,950
pointy sports ball does he play on the

590
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:38,000
green bay packers or something yes

591
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,760
how do i know these things folks you

592
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,440
wouldn't believe it but we are actually

593
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,960
um we're actually talking about

594
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,880
skeptical things it's the return of the

595
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:46,559
think tank this is the international

596
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:49,039
version of the think tank and it's quite

597
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:52,000
a a bittersweet day for us all in the

598
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:53,600
great australian prediction project this

599
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,360
is the la oh they're all crying this is

600
00:23:58,870 --> 00:23:57,440
the last one and

601
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,880
we did some back of the envelope

602
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:00,640
calculations earlier

603
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:01,760
and just

604
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:04,159
us meeting which was roughly seven

605
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:05,600
people give or take

606
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:09,120
every week for 72 weeks

607
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,240
roughly

608
00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:12,240
come yeah two weeks at least two hours

609
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:14,520
comes to roughly

610
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:17,600
1050 hours just in our time alone on

611
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,880
this project

612
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,880
so that's quite something joining me in

613
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:22,960
our virtual think tank today is the

614
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,679
well-known skeptic rob palmer hello rob

615
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,760
hello there joining me from the tardis

616
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:30,000
is kelly burke hello kelly

617
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,440
hello well kelly's

618
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,000
one of the people who tried to um

619
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:36,080
apply to be the tooth fairy a few weeks

620
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,960
ago if you remember we have uh lou i

621
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:40,080
didn't know there was an application

622
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,919
process i wouldn't have put mine you

623
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:43,919
can't be a tooth fairy but you're

624
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:44,799
already

625
00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:48,799
skeptic you would have had to miss the

626
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:50,960
australian new zealand convention

627
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:53,120
convention for it so

628
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:54,159
you wouldn't want to do it i wouldn't

629
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,480
want to do that lou hillman hello lou

630
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,400
hi there and thank you very much for all

631
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:00,480
the hard work you've done with us all

632
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,320
all these these uh weeks and weeks and

633
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:04,320
weeks and weeks we have leonard trimmel

634
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,200
over there in sunny california hello

635
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:09,840
hello richard nice to see you too and

636
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:12,960
skeptic phone skeptic phone skeptic zone

637
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,240
fans might remember that you took me on

638
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,480
a wonderful guided tour of the chabot

639
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,400
space center in berkeley a few years

640
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:22,320
back and i look forward to doing that

641
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:23,120
again

642
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:25,039
and of course we have that voice you

643
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:27,919
know so well folks it's the uh the woman

644
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,240
you hear reading the australian skeptics

645
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:32,799
news usually it's adrian hill

646
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,600
hey richard e see she's from canada

647
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:39,120
and

648
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:40,000
the word

649
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:42,799
sorry the woman we owe a big thanks for

650
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,480
hosting this every week now for 72 weeks

651
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,720
yes it's susan gerbic

652
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:51,120
hi everybody all right so cheers

653
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:53,200
everybody with our virtual cups holding

654
00:25:55,530 --> 00:25:54,840
up to the cameras

655
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:55,540
cheers much

656
00:26:01,510 --> 00:25:57,039
[Music]

657
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,950
oh i

658
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,520
hit my microphone that's no good so

659
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:07,200
normally in the think tank we haven't

660
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,640
done a think tank on the skeptic zone

661
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:10,080
for some time but in the early years of

662
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:12,080
the show we'd all gathered at the club

663
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,520
at the end of the street which is still

664
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:15,600
there and it's open again i have a big

665
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,440
chinese dinner lots of drinks and talk

666
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:19,279
about skeptical issues of the day so

667
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:21,200
let's let's open up the floor

668
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,120
we'll kick off with you susan we were

669
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,200
talking about sport when our listeners

670
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,440
he's dropped in to join this session why

671
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,520
were we talking about sport and what's

672
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:32,559
that got to do with wiki stats

673
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,360
well we were talking about a football

674
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,440
player american football player whose

675
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,080
name is aaron rodgers who plays for a

676
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:41,919
foot american football team called green

677
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:45,440
bay packers who is a man who said he was

678
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,640
inoculated against kovid and then he got

679
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:50,640
covered and then it came out that he was

680
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:52,720
inoculated with nothing which was

681
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:56,400
homeopathy and so what um kelly burke

682
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,600
had been

683
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:59,520
talking about homeopathy she put it she

684
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:00,799
can tell you in a minute what she was

685
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:03,360
doing which made me say

686
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:06,480
i have been curious about

687
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:09,440
the word homeopathy if possibly

688
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,080
when it hit the media

689
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:14,240
did people go what is homeopathy and

690
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:15,760
then they went and did a google search

691
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:18,240
or went directly to wikipedia and looked

692
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:20,960
to see if their you know what was

693
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,679
homeopathy and it turns out we looked

694
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,840
just a few minutes ago

695
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,200
wikipedia

696
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,200
has these view stats where you can see

697
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:31,679
you know how many people viewed a page

698
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,120
and normally oh gee on average probably

699
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,080
the term homeopathy gets about

700
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:41,200
1500 page views a day right so on the

701
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,159
days that he that this story broke that

702
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,559
this football player aaron rodgers was

703
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,440
using homeopathy or had used it

704
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:51,200
the term

705
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:55,039
the wikipedia page homeopathy hit

706
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:58,799
had a four day spike one day was 3 300.

707
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:01,840
the next day was 3400

708
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:04,000
next day was three thousand seven

709
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,520
hundred and then the next day was three

710
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:07,600
thousand three hundred and then the

711
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,039
following days was about twenty five

712
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,200
hundred and i said it's average is about

713
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,919
a fifteen hundred views a day so

714
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,440
with our

715
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,840
our little experiment there so when they

716
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,000
started talking about

717
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:22,640
aaron rodgers and his homeopathy

718
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,919
non-treatment

719
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,840
it looks like though awful lot of people

720
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,679
search for the term homeopathy and they

721
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:29,200
hit the wikipedia page and got good

722
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,720
information so that i thought that was

723
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:32,480
great you might want to ask kelly

724
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:34,880
i i will ask kelly kelly what can you

725
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,000
tell us

726
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,240
uh so i've been working with a podcast

727
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,480
that i will shamelessly plug here called

728
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,000
unbiased science

729
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,399
and i've been cr helping them to create

730
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,840
some social media content we have a

731
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,000
whole team of us working on it so when

732
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,799
the aaron rodgers news broke i thought

733
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:52,559
this is a great time for a homeopathy

734
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:55,279
post and so we worked on it and it just

735
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,039
went out today um just kind of

736
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,440
explaining what homeopathy is

737
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:01,520
and a lot of the response that we got

738
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,760
was a lot of people thinking

739
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,679
that homeopathy was just natural

740
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,760
medicine and not realizing how

741
00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:09,600
ridiculous it was so

742
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:11,440
the post was really great in educating

743
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:13,279
people and making them realize like oh

744
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:15,200
that's what homeopathy is i just kind of

745
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,559
lumped it with all of that and thought

746
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:18,080
it was fine

747
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:19,600
you make a very good point a lot of

748
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:21,360
people and in the 20 years i've been

749
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:23,679
dealing with this i i still encounter

750
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:24,559
this

751
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,640
simply most people don't realize that

752
00:29:30,149 --> 00:29:28,240
it's magical

753
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:30,159
vibrations of nothing

754
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,559
and and when they learn they they don't

755
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:34,159
it you know it doesn't sink in it

756
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,600
doesn't they can't comprehend that what

757
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,039
do you mean you know they they think

758
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,279
it's or they think it's my newt

759
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:41,600
like you know a couple of molecules or

760
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:43,360
whatever if they even

761
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:45,120
think that far is that the same

762
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,919
situation in canada adrian

763
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:49,200
oh yes

764
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:50,960
people really don't understand what

765
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:53,679
homeopathy is and it's been recommended

766
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:56,480
to me many times as a migraine cure

767
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,760
and

768
00:30:01,269 --> 00:30:00,480
i always ask do you know what homeopathy

769
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:01,279
is

770
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:05,120
and most of the time they have no idea

771
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:05,919
so

772
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,880
when i say that it's just really ultra

773
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:10,080
diluted

774
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:11,919
most times they're surprised

775
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:14,240
but i did encounter

776
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:15,679
at our pharmacy

777
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,320
a woman who was in charge of stalking

778
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,480
the shelves of homeopathy and she

779
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,799
unfortunately saw me laughing

780
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,440
at one of their medications that

781
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:27,360
science-based medicine had been recently

782
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,120
talking about and we actually ended up

783
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,360
in a discussion and i tried to do sort

784
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:33,760
of the anthony magnabosco thing with

785
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,720
questioning and she finally did say well

786
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,640
yeah it is really just a belief system

787
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:40,640
and that's all it is so i thought that

788
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,120
was that was pretty good

789
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,919
now rob's put his hand up

790
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:47,520
yeah i have a little input on this i so

791
00:31:02,789 --> 00:30:48,240
i

792
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,799
fallacy

793
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,799
and then it would have to dis it would

794
00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:06,159
have an example

795
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:09,440
so for the one for anecdotal evidence i

796
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:12,480
actually used something like oh my my

797
00:31:17,350 --> 00:31:15,919
mother uh uses uh homeopathy and she

798
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:17,360
tells me she feels better so i know it

799
00:31:20,789 --> 00:31:18,720
works

800
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,799
and i got the most pushback on that that

801
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:22,640
i had on practically any other logical

802
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:24,080
fallacy post because what's wrong with

803
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,519
homeopathy

804
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,600
wow and these are well-educated

805
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,440
engineers with master's degrees

806
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,840
sometimes phds telling me what's wrong

807
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,120
with homeopathy why are you using that

808
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,279
as that example i don't understand it

809
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:38,000
because the placebo effect is well

810
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:39,600
established

811
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,840
yes yes indeed and and the ignorance

812
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:43,840
people are just ignorant as to what it

813
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,080
is they've heard about it they've heard

814
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:48,080
some people use it they may heard it's

815
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:49,679
traditional or natural medicine or

816
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:52,480
alternative medicine but the the key and

817
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:54,240
the one that we keep trying to bring

818
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,480
home to people is that there is nothing

819
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,640
in it there is no such thing is there

820
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,720
such a thing as homeopathy sometimes i

821
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:02,880
ask is there such a thing if you have a

822
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,760
true homeopathic product that it's not

823
00:32:09,029 --> 00:32:07,279
you see what i mean

824
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:09,039
it's bigger in europe than it is in

825
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:11,919
america yeah i mean i i could probably

826
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,840
go through a thousand americans off the

827
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,080
street and they would have no clue what

828
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:20,480
homeopathy is if i asked them they would

829
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:21,360
say

830
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:22,240
no

831
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:23,279
what

832
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:26,960
they'd give a definition that would be

833
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:29,679
kind of like is it natural is it

834
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:31,519
i don't think it's big but when i was

835
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,799
touring in europe and especially germany

836
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,640
everybody knows what homeopathy is over

837
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:38,880
there because it's been funded by a lot

838
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,720
of the um

839
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,960
your insurance and things and here it's

840
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,200
just kind of like what

841
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:47,120
we got enough nonsense in america my

842
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,279
goodness let's just let's just say it's

843
00:32:52,710 --> 00:32:50,720
straight up

844
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:52,720
we don't have we don't have room for

845
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:54,720
another one

846
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,640
i mean same in the uk right i i talked

847
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:58,559
to michael marshall about his fights

848
00:33:03,029 --> 00:33:01,360
over there to try to get it defunded in

849
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,039
the national government

850
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,679
adrian if you would ask the woman that

851
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:07,120
you talked to there she said it was a

852
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:08,559
belief system

853
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,310
i've actually talked to some people

854
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,399
in my circle of friends who

855
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,480
do think it works on animals but the

856
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,480
animals don't have as far as we know a

857
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:24,399
belief system that includes

858
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,399
the fact that for the belief that

859
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,279
homeopathy is real but they're okay

860
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,360
but their owners their owners believe it

861
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,880
the owners believe it that's a very good

862
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:35,200
point it's it's ba and the same is for

863
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:37,039
babies

864
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:41,360
much as the people giving it

865
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,760
have the perception it works on uh

866
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,919
babies and animals and and that's yeah

867
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:47,840
that's a that's a fascinating rabbit

868
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:50,000
hole now susan you've shared this page

869
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:51,679
with us the statistics you were reading

870
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:53,919
about where we can all see the blip the

871
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:55,919
uptick in people searching for

872
00:34:02,470 --> 00:33:58,559
homeopathy on wikipedia i've not seen

873
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:02,480
this before this is a publicly uh

874
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:04,480
available tool and it's at

875
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:11,030
it's fascinating we use it all the time

876
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,480
now the gsow project has its own

877
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,919
data collection

878
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:18,079
device which we call stat badger that

879
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:19,679
was written by

880
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,200
data skeptic kyle polish and that tracks

881
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:26,000
the pages that we input

882
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,280
that are

883
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,280
i think we're a little over 1900 pages

884
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,520
now and it allows us to see how the

885
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,119
pages we've written

886
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:35,760
are are viewed and we're just at a

887
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:38,800
little over 100 million page views but

888
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:41,440
this is for anything and you can compare

889
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:42,720
stats

890
00:34:47,829 --> 00:34:45,359
um you have to copy and paste the

891
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:47,839
wikipedia page name correctly i mean

892
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,720
right

893
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,240
and we're talking about uh you could

894
00:34:54,470 --> 00:34:52,560
start typing in an autocorrect sometimes

895
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,480
yeah but you have to have the capitals

896
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,320
right and everything like that so you

897
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,480
can compare like you can compare

898
00:35:01,030 --> 00:35:00,079
psychics with each other i do that all

899
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,040
the time

900
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,520
and you can do you know

901
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:05,520
just any combination you can possibly

902
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,320
think of of wikipedia pages put

903
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,920
you know five or six on there you could

904
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,160
do pie charts you can do

905
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,560
you can look at the stats by

906
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,040
by any time frame you want i think this

907
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,599
tool starts at 2015.

908
00:35:23,829 --> 00:35:21,760
and it gives you daily averages and

909
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:23,839
languages it's great so richard this

910
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:25,760
tool is available from the from any page

911
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,880
on the computer you don't have to like

912
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,119
go separately basically in the left

913
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,960
panel there's a bunch of stuff that

914
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:33,040
people don't pay attention to it starts

915
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,200
with main page contents so halfway down

916
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:37,599
is tools yeah you click you click page

917
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:38,640
information

918
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,240
that opens another page with a bunch of

919
00:35:43,829 --> 00:35:42,240
stuff if you go to the very bottom

920
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:43,839
right near the bottom it says page view

921
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,280
statistics and that's how you get to the

922
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,440
page susan right so this he's talking

923
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,599
about on wikipedia

924
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,119
if you look at a wikipedia page on the

925
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,280
left hand side and go down far enough

926
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:55,760
you will see this tool yep so when

927
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:56,640
people

928
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:59,119
do that susan when they click on

929
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,240
and they're running a search for

930
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,400
homeopathy because some famous person

931
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:05,200
mention it or something like that

932
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:06,560
let's talk about homeopathy in

933
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:09,920
particular what are they presented with

934
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,599
well they better be presented with a

935
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,520
really well-written wikipedia page

936
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,440
especially the lead because we don't

937
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:17,520
expect most people to read the entire

938
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,240
page right we expect them to read

939
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,680
the the

940
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:22,720
lead

941
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,520
and

942
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:25,440
possibly look at the info box which is

943
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:27,839
on the right hand side because i think

944
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,240
most people come in look at it and go oh

945
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,560
nonsense okay gone let's go see what the

946
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:35,040
football scores are or whatever you know

947
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,400
they're they're just for the moment and

948
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:38,400
there's a word in the homeopathy page

949
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:39,920
and i'm not looking at it right this

950
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,680
moment somebody better look at it oh i'm

951
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:43,920
looking at it but i read the word

952
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:46,320
quackery is in the lead

953
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:48,640
is it right now like the last words let

954
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:49,920
me read the first two sentences if

955
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:51,520
anyone reads this and just still

956
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:53,040
believes it works it's bizarre oh

957
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,800
they'll just be the people well anybody

958
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:56,800
can write anything on wikipedia right

959
00:37:02,870 --> 00:36:59,920
homeopathy is a pseudo is a pseudo

960
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,880
scientific with five citations there on

961
00:37:06,829 --> 00:37:05,280
that word system of alternative medicine

962
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:06,839
it was conceived in

963
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:09,520
1796 by the german physician samuel

964
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,599
heinemann its practitioners called

965
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,520
homeopaths believe that a substance that

966
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:15,839
causes symptoms of a disease in healthy

967
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:18,400
people can cure similar symptoms of sick

968
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:22,079
people this doctrine is called somalia

969
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,599
i don't speak life

970
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,000
or like cures like

971
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,720
and it goes on to say how ridiculous but

972
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:30,640
right at the top it says homeopathy is a

973
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:32,720
pseudoscience which is really you know

974
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:35,119
fantastic that that's the top line um

975
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:36,320
yeah lots of people that's there on

976
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,160
purpose you guys that is there

977
00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:41,040
intentionally to be the first

978
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:44,000
last sentence of the second paragraph

979
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:46,079
the fundamental implausibility of

980
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:48,480
homeopathy as well as a lack of

981
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,200
demonstrable effectiveness has led to it

982
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:52,640
being characterized within the

983
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:55,680
scientific and medical communities as

984
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:58,560
quackery and fraud

985
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:00,640
i knew the word was in there because

986
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:03,920
that is a long fought battle to get the

987
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:06,880
word quackery in there now pseudoscience

988
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,960
okay we got that in there but quackery

989
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:09,839
was

990
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,680
battle this is a normal wikipedia editor

991
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,520
battle to get that in there

992
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:19,440
gsow doesn't

993
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,599
is is a very little blip in the world of

994
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,480
wikipedia editors and this happened a

995
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,079
long time ago but i can remember this

996
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,000
going back and forth with these long

997
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,560
discussions we can't put quackery in

998
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,599
here yes we can no you can't label

999
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:35,440
something as a question you know you can

1000
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:38,079
so it was incredible but to see it still

1001
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:39,680
there after all these years is a

1002
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:42,400
testament to the massive amount of work

1003
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,349
because i have that page in my watch

1004
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:52,079
list amongst many others so anytime

1005
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:53,599
someone makes a change to it i get an

1006
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:54,880
email and

1007
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,320
it says okay you can check out what the

1008
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,960
change was and all the time somebody's

1009
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:00,320
trying to take the words of science out

1010
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:01,760
they're trying to take the word quackery

1011
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,480
out and almost instantaneously someone

1012
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,720
says no it stays

1013
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:08,240
yeah a lot of people got really mad that

1014
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,079
i used the word pseudoscience in that

1015
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,079
post that we put up today

1016
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,560
good for you this tool is fascinating as

1017
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,800
we've been chatting just randomly i

1018
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:18,480
thought what what else could i look for

1019
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:20,400
and i've put in james randy our friend

1020
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:23,119
james randy who we all miss and i see a

1021
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:24,480
big blip

1022
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:26,640
in the middle of last month which was of

1023
00:39:30,390 --> 00:39:29,040
course about a year after randy the year

1024
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,400
after yeah

1025
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,040
and that had had nearly 2 000 views on

1026
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,359
on on around that day

1027
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:37,200
and yeah that's fascinating what an

1028
00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:38,240
interesting

1029
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,599
now rob you were telling me a bit

1030
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:43,119
earlier and i haven't seen it yet

1031
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,520
although i noticed it's on netflix in

1032
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:47,359
this country

1033
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,119
a show called ins inside job in yes it's

1034
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:52,480
called the inside job what's that all

1035
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:53,280
about

1036
00:39:59,349 --> 00:39:56,640
so yes i sat down to continue binge

1037
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,359
watching a netflix series on the night

1038
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:01,440
of october 22nd

1039
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:03,440
and netflix as it does popped up a you

1040
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,760
know a trailer for something else and it

1041
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,440
was a brand new show and i didn't know

1042
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:09,440
at the time but it had just dropped then

1043
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:10,880
sometime that day

1044
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:12,960
uh and i went to my facebook page after

1045
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:14,160
i looked at the trailer and i said oh

1046
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,599
this is fantastic i have to put this on

1047
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,960
my skeptic page

1048
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:18,800
and i wrote i just found this brand new

1049
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:20,800
series released today on netflix set in

1050
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:22,319
the universe where every single

1051
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,040
conspiracy theory you've ever heard is

1052
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,760
true and i put the link and i said you

1053
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:29,280
know okay like what do you think about

1054
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,560
this and

1055
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,000
several hours later when i went to look

1056
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:34,160
at a lot of people this is fantastic i

1057
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,839
just laughed for three hours i'm binge

1058
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,599
watching the entire thing

1059
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:39,599
and one of the commenters was rust

1060
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:41,920
stubbler from aipt comics he's the

1061
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:43,359
editor for the skeptic and science

1062
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,400
section and he asked me to write a

1063
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:46,560
review so i did

1064
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:48,400
so within a few days i wrote that review

1065
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,560
and he actually put it on the website

1066
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,440
and uh yeah it's a hysterical series if

1067
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:55,760
if you're a skeptic and you like

1068
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,560
to poke fun at this kind of a subject

1069
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,720
basically it's set in a world that's

1070
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,560
sort of like the

1071
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:04,720
let's see i'll say men in black where

1072
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,560
you know in that universe yes aliens are

1073
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:08,319
on earth and and the government of the

1074
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,200
us is is keeping that under wraps and

1075
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:13,280
you get inside the whole agency which is

1076
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:14,960
the men of black that's keeping that

1077
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,599
secret this goes beyond that every

1078
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:19,440
conspiracy there's an atlantis in the

1079
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:21,599
middle of the atlantic ocean

1080
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,760
you know we didn't we did not go to the

1081
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:25,359
moon but we lied that we didn't go to

1082
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:26,560
the moon because there's a secret base

1083
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,520
there that they don't want anybody to

1084
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:29,520
know about buzz aldrin is still there

1085
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:31,760
and the guy who plays buzz aldrin is an

1086
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:37,510
is still on the moon and there's an

1087
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:39,839
actor playing the part of boz aldrin on

1088
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,800
earth that's correct because they had a

1089
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,200
fake that they came back i see he just

1090
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:44,720
stayed in the base

1091
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:46,720
yeah and so they showed they talked

1092
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,319
about when he punched the guy out you

1093
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:49,599
know that was that was great that the

1094
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,430
and there are reptilians the earth the

1095
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:57,359
earth the earth is hollow one of the

1096
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,960
main characters is a giant walking

1097
00:42:01,670 --> 00:42:00,800
mushroom from middle earth

1098
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:01,680
um

1099
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:03,280
yeah it's amazing

1100
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,040
it sounds like the flat earth conspiracy

1101
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:07,359
was just put out to confuse people uh

1102
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:10,000
the jfk assassin is works there his name

1103
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,079
is grassy knoll somebody rather

1104
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:16,319
he works in a division of assassinations

1105
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:17,280
and

1106
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:18,560
he was going to quit but to make him

1107
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,480
feel better in one of the episodes they

1108
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:23,280
let go of all the jfk clones they have

1109
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,480
so that he could have some target

1110
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,240
practice it's like it just goes on and

1111
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,560
on and on

1112
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,720
well rob is forgetting to mention is

1113
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:32,480
that what he was binge watching right

1114
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:34,960
before this was the real housewives of

1115
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:41,670
i didn't like i didn't like inside jobs

1116
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,240
so more power to you all who want to

1117
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,400
enjoy it i thought it was i just don't

1118
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:48,240
like characters like the main characters

1119
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,440
they have they're just

1120
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:51,599
yeah so you you watch one episode right

1121
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,520
not even you know what i also don't like

1122
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:55,280
is when people tell me you have to watch

1123
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,910
you know it's a deal breaker i'm not

1124
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,599
gonna waste my time

1125
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:05,760
watching a bunch of episodes so that i

1126
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:08,000
might like it later no you know i did

1127
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:09,440
that i didn't like the character one

1128
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:11,119
episode i stopped but this will never

1129
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:12,370
last

1130
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,520
[Music]

1131
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:16,319
well well i i know for a fact i know for

1132
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:18,880
a fact susan you must be a member of the

1133
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:22,319
the illuminati because you and your evil

1134
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:25,200
cabal right you're manipulating

1135
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,920
wikipedia to give out false information

1136
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:29,680
to the sheeple aren't you

1137
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,079
oh gosh man you should see my checks

1138
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,640
by the way big skeptic richard it's not

1139
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,079
just a cabal

1140
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:40,640
it's a secret oh

1141
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,040
and we capitalize the s in secret and

1142
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,520
the c in cabal

1143
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:47,119
oh and back to inside job for just for a

1144
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:48,480
moment one of the things they show you

1145
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:49,839
are actual sheeple they're sheeps with

1146
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:52,480
people's heads after developing uh okay

1147
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,440
well

1148
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,160
there you know since this q and on thing

1149
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:58,400
came out and and this world we've lived

1150
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:01,200
in the last five years i never ever

1151
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,480
believed

1152
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,000
that we were this

1153
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:06,319
badly off i really

1154
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:09,280
had a lot of humanity thinking that

1155
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,520
maybe there's just a few fringe people

1156
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:13,760
and they're reachable and i i tell you

1157
00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:15,760
what i'm starting to really feel like

1158
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,119
we've lost this puddle so bad that

1159
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,040
it's going to be all we can do to hold

1160
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,829
i don't even know where to get just

1161
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:27,359
because hundreds and hundreds of people

1162
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:34,309
there they are still there standing in

1163
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:35,280
the rain

1164
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,040
fall forming a cue out of their bodies

1165
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,760
standing there susan waiting for jfk to

1166
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,359
show up for those

1167
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:45,280
listeners who might have missed this

1168
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:52,630
oh my gosh on was it last wednesday

1169
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:53,680
they said

1170
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:57,680
some fringe fringe fringe of the q anon

1171
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:00,160
group i mean this is fringe

1172
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:04,720
said that um jfk jr and jfk were going

1173
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:08,800
to appear at the grassy knoll where jfk

1174
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:11,760
was supposedly assassinated but he

1175
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,599
wasn't assassinated

1176
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,680
because he's in hiding

1177
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:17,839
and so they gathered right where the

1178
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:21,359
shot supposedly happened and though that

1179
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:24,160
jfk is would be about

1180
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:25,760
104

1181
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,760
they decided that he was going to come

1182
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:29,359
back because he's actually been

1183
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:33,359
president for a while because trump was

1184
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:36,560
um he's like oh trump is the son of

1185
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:38,960
patton i think

1186
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:39,920
and

1187
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:46,640
he assigned his presidency over to jfk

1188
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:49,040
who's his first cousin

1189
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:50,400
who

1190
00:45:55,990 --> 00:45:51,760
um

1191
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:56,000
everybody's you should see the faces

1192
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:57,520
folks you should see the faces i'm

1193
00:46:01,589 --> 00:45:58,839
looking at

1194
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:01,599
jfk was given the presidency because you

1195
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:04,560
can apparently assign the u.s presidency

1196
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:06,400
to an old president

1197
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:07,520
and then

1198
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,160
jfk has now given it to his son jfk jr

1199
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,560
who did not die in the plane crash what

1200
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,960
15 years ago but he's been in hiding

1201
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,119
again and they were all going to reveal

1202
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:21,839
themselves at the time at this specific

1203
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:25,119
time the time was the time that jfk was

1204
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:28,000
assassinated nobody's cleared up why

1205
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:29,520
right although not on the same date

1206
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,359
oddly right not the same date but at the

1207
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:33,599
same time in the same place

1208
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,400
and

1209
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:36,880
people with

1210
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:40,160
with shirts and banners that said trump

1211
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:43,680
2024 with with jfk junior

1212
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,880
kennedy

1213
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,560
as the vice president you can buy those

1214
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:47,760
on ebay i looked yours the other day

1215
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:49,839
it's still there thirty dollars for

1216
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:52,079
trump i'm sorry i asked the question now

1217
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:54,800
this is well the point is is i'm feeling

1218
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:55,599
okay

1219
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:58,400
i'm a very optimistic person very and i

1220
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:00,880
usually see the good in people

1221
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,680
i'm really thinking that all these years

1222
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:05,520
of the world work i've been doing and

1223
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:07,839
all of us have been doing together

1224
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:09,280
we

1225
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:14,400
i just kind of think that

1226
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:15,920
there's this

1227
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:16,720
i

1228
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:31,119
just

1229
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:34,960
be if we hadn't been pushing and that's

1230
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:37,200
what nice people like you say

1231
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:38,400
and i'm not

1232
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:41,440
buying it anymore

1233
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:44,160
like i thought i i read several

1234
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:45,280
different

1235
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:47,040
things every day that does like a

1236
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:48,800
rundown of what's going on in the world

1237
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,520
of q and on or anti-vaxxers and stuff

1238
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:52,960
and there's no

1239
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,079
logic there is no way you can appeal to

1240
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,960
these people the only thing we have

1241
00:48:04,829 --> 00:48:00,240
in our

1242
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,839
inoculation

1243
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,520
against pseudoscience and that is get

1244
00:48:10,710 --> 00:48:09,040
them while they're young

1245
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:10,720
get them before they fall into the

1246
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:12,880
rabbit hole get them before they believe

1247
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:14,000
it

1248
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:15,280
explain

1249
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:17,760
logical fallacies and critical thinking

1250
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:20,720
and give them enough examples and so

1251
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:23,200
that when they run into

1252
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,760
i don't know a medical emergency or a

1253
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:27,760
psychic or

1254
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,319
some some conspiracy theory they will in

1255
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,760
their brain they've already got the

1256
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:33,839
little inoculation in their in their

1257
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,640
body and it says oh i think somebody's

1258
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:38,480
trying to attack my critical thinking

1259
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,440
senses i where am i where is it that i'm

1260
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,280
supposed to some things

1261
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,359
you know and some kind of alert goes out

1262
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,200
and it doesn't affect them as much or

1263
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:49,280
they kind of dissuaded or or they're not

1264
00:48:54,069 --> 00:48:52,160
in it as long that is i think is the

1265
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:54,079
only thing we've got left you guys i

1266
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:55,359
don't think there's any way you're going

1267
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:56,800
to change minds even though i know

1268
00:49:00,309 --> 00:48:58,559
there's a few who have i don't think

1269
00:49:01,430 --> 00:49:00,319
there's anything else that's where i'm

1270
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:01,440
at right now

1271
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:04,319
susan's coming for your children

1272
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,160
oh my gosh i love kids

1273
00:49:09,829 --> 00:49:08,480
but i seriously think that might be it

1274
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:09,839
susan

1275
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:12,079
why why do you have a devil hat on with

1276
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:14,880
pom-poms because i'm a worshiper it's

1277
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:17,040
so that i can worship her

1278
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:18,720
oh yes

1279
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,599
i stand out in a crowd you know

1280
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,200
i'd love to put that picture as your

1281
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:25,920
wikipedia info box picture yeah i'm

1282
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:33,030
well my friends what are we going to do

1283
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:35,839
we've for 72 weeks we've been meeting

1284
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,640
here at the same time every week to do

1285
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,880
welcome to join me in the jerry andrus

1286
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:43,119
an insanity

1287
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:44,720
work i'm doing but

1288
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:46,800
it's crazy let me tell you guys

1289
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,440
but i i take this opportunity to thank

1290
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:51,280
you all for putting in hundreds and

1291
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,040
hundreds and hundreds of hours to this

1292
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:54,720
project when it's published your names

1293
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,480
all appear in the credits

1294
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:58,480
and i will be sure to thank you

1295
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,359
uh because without you i could not have

1296
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:03,680
completed this task so i will be ever

1297
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,720
forever grateful to you

1298
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:08,720
it has been my pleasure it's been

1299
00:50:10,829 --> 00:50:09,839
awesome

1300
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:10,839
my name

1301
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,800
right

1302
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:15,440
and of course as i was saying the rbik

1303
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:17,200
right

1304
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:18,960
next year we're starting on the great

1305
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:25,190
yeah so richard everybody everybody's

1306
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:26,559
gonna want to know you might as well

1307
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:28,160
just say right now what is it you're

1308
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:29,359
gonna do now

1309
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:30,400
what

1310
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:33,280
after you run downstairs

1311
00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:34,400
and get

1312
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,319
a nice

1313
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:38,000
peanut butter and jelly sandwich no no

1314
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,720
i'm gonna get waffles with maple syrup

1315
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,640
well that's the point you know

1316
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:44,480
this was it was great i mean we couldn't

1317
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,000
have done this except during a pandemic

1318
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:50,400
thank goodness for the pandemic

1319
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:53,760
you would ask me you said susan

1320
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:54,960
i need to

1321
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:57,680
like gather a few people together to

1322
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,440
to do this could you

1323
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,960
could you do could you help me out do

1324
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,400
you think you could find a couple people

1325
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,720
and i said okay i'll do it for tuesday

1326
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:06,240
june 23rd

1327
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,319
uh three o'clock is that good and then i

1328
00:51:11,829 --> 00:51:10,240
said i'll just advertise and see who

1329
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:11,839
shows up and some people showed it up

1330
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:13,040
and then

1331
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:17,680
next week we did it again and it was

1332
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:19,520
like oh my gosh we're doing this every

1333
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,119
tuesday i might have picked a different

1334
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,000
time but it was it was it was an honor

1335
00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:26,720
to be asked i appreciate it richard did

1336
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:28,559
you that you've reached out and asked me

1337
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:31,920
to organize the cats of our community

1338
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:33,680
which is what we do

1339
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:36,079
which i spend most my time doing is

1340
00:51:40,309 --> 00:51:38,319
organizing you cats

1341
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:40,319
hurting cats hurting cats yeah it was it

1342
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:41,760
was a great honor to do this it was a

1343
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,520
lot of fun we learned a lot i learned a

1344
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:46,160
lot i know more about nicole kidman than

1345
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,760
i think

1346
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:49,440
anybody should know it's not healthy to

1347
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:50,960
know that much about nicole not being

1348
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:52,720
australian yeah

1349
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:55,280
and australian politics yep

1350
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:57,280
no i never did i tuned out when you guys

1351
00:52:02,230 --> 00:51:58,720
talked about it and

1352
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:02,240
adrian our favorite word is

1353
00:52:20,309 --> 00:52:18,870
return of the um

1354
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,319
for this week in the return of the think

1355
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:22,160
tank and to all of you

1356
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:23,760
thank you and cheers

1357
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:24,960
[Music]

1358
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,870
thank you everyone sad oh

1359
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:34,640
have another we'll have another drink

1360
00:52:42,590 --> 00:52:36,559
all good things must come to an end they

1361
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:55,109
[Music]

1362
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:56,790
now here's a message from our friends at

1363
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:59,280
canberra skeptics canberra skeptics

1364
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:00,800
proudly presents

1365
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:03,119
resourcing resilience a proposed

1366
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:05,920
australian universal scheme for national

1367
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:08,319
and community services now this talk

1368
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:12,480
will be on monday the 22nd of november

1369
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:15,599
from 6 p.m to 7 p.m and the speaker is

1370
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:18,960
professor john blacksland and well like

1371
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,119
many things these days it's over zoom so

1372
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:23,040
you can enjoy this from all over the

1373
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:24,319
world

1374
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,559
the australian defense force has been in

1375
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:28,480
demand to support communities during the

1376
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:31,599
bushfires and the covert 19 pandemic but

1377
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:34,240
it is only a boutique force and now

1378
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,240
finds itself stretched

1379
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:38,319
meanwhile other entities normally

1380
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,319
charged with the responsibility for

1381
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:42,640
responding to domestic emergencies the

1382
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:44,640
state-based police fire health and

1383
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:47,040
emergency services are taxed and

1384
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:50,880
stretched with little spare capacity

1385
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:53,839
this does sound like an interesting talk

1386
00:53:59,750 --> 00:53:56,400
and you can find out more by visiting

1387
00:54:04,230 --> 00:54:01,589
or looking them up on facebook at

1388
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,240
canberra skeptics and also

1389
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:06,640
coming up canberra skeptics proudly

1390
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:07,680
presents

1391
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:10,480
a conversation with jay novella

1392
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:13,839
and this will be on sunday the 12th of

1393
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:18,640
december 2021 from noon to 1pm

1394
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,680
and you can register via zoom again

1395
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:23,599
it says here the final lecture first

1396
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:25,760
2021 canberra skeptics will be

1397
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,240
interviewing jay novella about his life

1398
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:30,240
as a skeptic and how the skeptical

1399
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,480
movement has affected him and what his

1400
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,040
hopes are for the skeptical

1401
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,280
future joe novella is the co-host of the

1402
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:39,760
top-rated podcast the skeptic's guide to

1403
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,119
the universe

1404
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,440
and also a little known fact jay novella

1405
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,359
is also a starship captain if you've

1406
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:47,040
heard solar flare you'll know what i

1407
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:48,000
mean

1408
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:50,240
now both these talks are made possible

1409
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:50,960
by

1410
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:53,359
grants from the australian skeptics

1411
00:54:58,050 --> 00:54:55,280
and you can find out more of course at

1412
00:55:12,470 --> 00:54:58,060
canberraskeptics.org

1413
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:13,990
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1414
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:16,400
zone now you can imagine that we are run

1415
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,960
off our feet in fact i need more feet to

1416
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:21,119
be run off of

1417
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:22,160
off

1418
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:23,680
feet

1419
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:26,880
because the australian and new zealand

1420
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,000
skeptics convention is next weekend

1421
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:32,480
and while there's lots of teas to cross

1422
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:35,760
and dies dies to dot eyes to dot

1423
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,240
and bridges the cross

1424
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,720
and whatever else it is we've got

1425
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,960
speakers from all over the world

1426
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:44,640
and you can imagine like any convention

1427
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:46,720
there's a lot to do especially in the

1428
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:48,960
last week i'm looking forward to this

1429
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:52,079
very much i'm giving at least one talk

1430
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:53,440
about the great australian psychic

1431
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,960
prediction project

1432
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,640
and of course we have wonderful speakers

1433
00:56:03,589 --> 00:55:58,720
like professor richard wiseman

1434
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:03,599
and susie wilds a bevious mattering a um

1435
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:05,040
what do you call a group of skeptics

1436
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,799
i'll have to think about that i think

1437
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:08,880
it's on sale now only 40 australian

1438
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:12,400
dollars and just before i click the stop

1439
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,200
record button as always thank you to my

1440
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:17,599
wonderful patreon patrons

1441
00:56:20,390 --> 00:56:18,480
and

1442
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:20,400
paypal supporters

1443
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:23,200
it's uh because of you everybody else

1444
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,040
gets to hear the show and if you've

1445
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:27,119
never sponsored a skeptical podcast

1446
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:31,040
before well there's always a first time

1447
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,480
but for this week

1448
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:34,720
this is richard saunders signing off

1449
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:42,390
you've been listening to the skeptic

1450
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:45,200
zone podcast please visit our website at

1451
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:51,430
for show notes contacts and to access

1452
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,000
the back catalog of episodes going back

1453
00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:56,240
to 2008.

1454
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:58,160
you can follow the skeptic's own podcast

1455
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:00,880
on twitter at skepticzone

1456
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:03,040
visit our facebook page or leave a

1457
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:05,359
review on itunes

1458
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:07,440
you can also support the skeptic zone

1459
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:10,640
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1460
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:14,000
podcast is an independent production the

1461
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:15,599
views and opinions expressed on the

1462
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:17,920
skeptic zone are not necessarily those